Tales From The Script

Building a Positive Community

January 26, 2020 Chris DeMars Episode 10
Tales From The Script
Building a Positive Community
Chapters
Tales From The Script
Building a Positive Community
Jan 26, 2020 Episode 10
Chris DeMars

On this episode of Tales From The Script, my guest Jesse Weigel and I are discussing how to build a positive developer community.

Find Jesse and Bekah below:
Jesse's Twitter
Bekah's Twitter

YouTube:
freeCodeCamp
Jesse Weigel on YouTube

Show Notes Transcript

On this episode of Tales From The Script, my guest Jesse Weigel and I are discussing how to build a positive developer community.

Find Jesse and Bekah below:
Jesse's Twitter
Bekah's Twitter

YouTube:
freeCodeCamp
Jesse Weigel on YouTube

Speaker 1:

[inaudible] [inaudible]

Speaker 2:

what is up boils and goals and welcome to another episode of tales from the script. It's been a long time. It's been a minute. We're back 2020. We're going to kick ass. We're going to take some names. You know how it goes. It's a podcast focused on front end web development, accessibility, performance, user experience mixed with a little bit of horror. I'm your host, Krista Mars . And today I'm talking to a buddy of mine, Jesse. Wiggle. What's up Jesse? Hey, how's it going? I'm tired man. I got hockey here in a little while. Uh , had you been slacking on the podcast, trying to bring it back. How are you been ?

Speaker 3:

Uh , pretty good. Pretty good. Just join, join the family , uh, recover from the holidays, you know. Sweet. Yeah, I feel that. I feel that. Yeah .

Speaker 2:

So everybody knows we are on Spotify now, which is pretty dope. I had to switch my hosting over, so I went from a host that kind of sucks to Buzzsprout. So if you're looking into getting into podcasting, Buzzsprout is pretty sweet. They're not sponsoring, I'm not getting paid, but they do have the option to a syndicator send your podcast over to Spotify, which happened fairly quickly, so I just got to give them a shout out. Well, it's kind of a funny story on how you and I met. I would say Jesse and I met a few couple of years ago when it rev comp, right? Yup . So we were all talking in a circle, and this guy that I'm talking to you right now was like, Hey, your voice sounds so familiar. And I'm like, wait, what are you talking about, dude? He would throw it , pulls up the podcast on this phone. He's like, do you host this podcast? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, Oh, that's where I know you from. And then him and I had been him and I had been home . He's ever sent . So ed , to get him on the podcast and see , recognize the podcast from the beginning. You know how this goes. I have to ask you, Jesse, what is your favorite horror movie? I, Whoa.

Speaker 3:

I tell you, I'm a big Joss Wheaton fan, so love me some little cabin in the woods, right? Oh yeah, that's another, that's a good one. That's sweet . I mean it's, it's good. It's got all the elements right of whore and he , you know, he's throws in those like couple actors that he puts in everything, a little comedy in there. Uh, I'm also a sucker for zombie movies, so anything was on B's and I'm probably gonna watch it. Even if it's a terrible movie, I'll probably just watch it on . I don't know what it is about that as your Honora but uh, I enjoy it . Did you see zombie lane too ? Not yet, dude . I keep, I keep seeing advertisements for it all the time. Ah , I want to see this movie, but nobody, nobody, you know that I know. You know, locally is into zombie movies like I am. So , uh, didn't, didn't have anybody that wanted to go see that, but I'm looking forward to seeing it. Yeah .

Speaker 2:

Well if you get on a flight anytime soon, Delta has it in their ad , in their movies. Oh, nice. Yeah. That's when I watched it. Where was I going? Uh, Oh yeah, it was flying to code mash and I was like, Oh shit, I'm land Tucson. I'm watching that bet. And it was, it was dope, dude. So you gotta you gotta check it out. Sweet. All right , so let's see here. So today Jesse and I , we are going to be talking about building a positive community and by positive community, we're gonna be talking about the developer community in particular. Uh , so Jesse , how did you get involved in the community?

Speaker 3:

Well, I , uh, I guess my first taste of , uh, the, the coding community came , um, when I went to my first conference , uh , which was , uh, in South Carolina, in Charleston, South Carolina. I'm trying to think what the name of this conference is called . Syntax. Syntax. That's it. Syntax, right? So I went to syntax con and , um, I had never, I had always been like a solo developer, like freelance or just, you know, working with one or two people. So that was like my first taste of like, wow, these are like my people, you know, we're all, you know , uh, geeking out together over code and stuff like that. So going to syntax con and just seeing the speakers there and being able to talk with the people just got me, it got me thinking more about what I wanted to do in the community and how I wanted to be more of a part of it. So that was like the first taste exchange , some Twitter info and started to get more into it like that, you know. But then I, you know, after the conference you'd go back to your normal routine. Uh, so it was kind of like a slow start for me. Right.

Speaker 2:

Conferences are an amazing way to get involved in the community. I mean, shit, you and I probably wouldn't know each other. I mean, maybe over Twitter, right? But we would have never met in real life or like had that connection and that's all because we were in the community at the right time, at the right place. I recognize what you are doing in the community and you've done amazing things in the community and as I'm stoked to be your friend and then be friends with your wife as well because she's also making huge impacts in the community as well, doing the things that she's doing. Uh , so talking about that, when we do talk about the community, specifically the developer community, what does that mean to you? Cause I know what it means to me, but what does it mean for you? So I think

Speaker 3:

it takes on a few different things, right? And it depends I guess on where where you're at, right? Because you have a select, Twitter has a great community, especially it seems like around the JavaScript ecosystem, right? So you have all these people on Twitter. Uh, but you know, if you go out to the conferences, you know, sometimes, you know, it seems surprisingly to me, cause I'm on Twitter, you know, I'm an involved , that there are a lot of people out of the conferences that say like, Oh yeah, I'm, I'm not really active on Twitter. I don't do Twitter. Right. So I've heard that so many times, almost like the tip of the iceberg. And then there's this big community that's maybe involved in other stuff. So like you, you gotta like your, your Reddit people and your, your blog people, your free code camp people, right? So it's, it's hard to define it as just like the people in this one area. Um, but I think, you know, in general, no matter where you're, you're reaching out to these people they're passionate about, about code , um, and most of them, you know, I would say, and hopefully most of them are passionate about making good things that are going to help people. Uh, that's that to me, that's the kind of like the one factor that kind of unites people is that passion.

Speaker 2:

I agree. It's too , to that point, I've been to so many different events or I've talked to developers out in the community and um , so many are like, Oh no, I'm not on Twitter. Or like I'll do a poll. Cause usually, you know when I give my talks I'll have like hashtags on my talk and I'll have my Twitter handle and all that and I'm like, Hey, if you're following, taking pictures, quoting, whatever the case may be, you know, hit me here and then use this hashtag for the event or whatever. But before I even do that, I asked , you know, I have, I do a poll . How many people in the audience are on Twitter in the, the numbers of people who are not on Twitter in these audiences just blows my mind. It's like, how are you not on Twitter? Like minus all the bullshit minus all the drama. How are you not there ? Like that's where the developers live. That's where we live, right? We share information, we share news, the newest, coolest things coming out from the browser vendors, the newest cold things you can do in the JavaScript world of CSS world for where I'm at and accessibility world, all these new things . Conferences like nobody, everybody has. Well Chris, how do you find out about these conferences? How do you submit to these conferences? Like follow me on Twitter, you know Sam, cause I'm constantly re-tweeting or I follow the conference events or um , you know, friends with the, the organizers and they'll, they'll tweet out about the events and I'm the first one on it to like, Hey, get there, get there, get there. Because I want everybody to submit first-timers. Everybody, I don't give a shit who you are, if you , you have something to say. And it just, I dunno, it just blows my mind. Like you can be a developer for so long and not be on Twitter. And Scott Hanselman actually wrote an article about this a years ago . He was called the black matter developer and he talked about there's like that 99% developer community who just doesn't do anything. They don't write , they're not on Twitter. They don't, they don't. And that's fine. Whatever, you know, whatever the case may be. But like the 1% of the people out there, like you and myself and all of our friends in the community and the people out there like pushing the community forward. Like you should be out there doing that. And the only way you're going to connect is on Twitter in my opinion.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Twitter has been super helpful to me. Um, and connecting with other people. And then in professionally, like the, you know, the last time I was searching for a job, it, Twitter my, so many of my interviews came through Twitter. It was, it was amazing. Uh, I would S no, I remember that it was wild in the same thing happened with my wife , uh, when , when she was looking , uh , she's a programmer as well and yeah, it's crazy. But you're right. Yeah. Like there are these, this, all of these programmers that aren't active, you know , at all. Uh, so it's kinda , it's odd to me because it's so helpful for your career. Uh, but it's sometimes comforting, right. On those, like there are some moments where Twitter gets kind of crazy and then I take comfort in the fact that like, well, it's just that like 1% of us crazy people on Twitter. Right. So, you know, yeah. Just block them or ignore them. It's that easy. Like, I've done that for a bunch of people in my Twitter feed and my life has been so much more, less stressful than it was at one point. Yeah, it's very rare. I'm, I'm, I'm, I've guess I've been pretty lucky and I haven't had to use the the block often, but , um, you're right. When you do it, it's so much nicer. Yeah. Yeah. So I love Twitter. So shout out to Twitter. Um , speaking of Twitter, what's your Twitter handle? CR Weigel . It's a, J, E, S, S, E, R, w, E. I. G, E, L. and R. you go, people start following Jesse shit, trying to get a job. Uh, then, you know, throw a tweet out there and like tag me in it or let me know about it. I'll, I'll retweet it for you and do whatever I can to help the power of Twitter community. So as someone that is helping to move community forward from your perspective , uh, what are great things that can happen from being a part of it? We kind of already touched on that, but there might be a little bit more. Maybe we can go a little bit deeper . So you're right. Like we touched on the, you know, the career side of things. Uh , definitely being able to get out there to the right people that you're looking for a job. Uh, but also like a little bit deeper, like from a perspective of a , I do a lot of interviews now where, where I work. Uh, so I interview candidates for developer roles and there's a big question Mark around like, what does this person really like? So the more you have out there on social media, right, the more I can get an idea of what's your personality, like how do you interact with other developers? Like what are your interests? So if you're out there and you use Twitter, let's say professionally, right? That doesn't mean you have to have all like business speak and stuff like that, but it just means that like you comment on, on coding things, right? Uh, if I can see that and if , uh , any potential employer can see that, then you're, you're no longer a question Mark. Right? The, the uncertainty is scary if you're looking to hire someone because that's a big investment of time and money. Uh, you know, they're just not sure like what you'll do to their work environment, to their team, which you're going to bring to the, so the more of yourself that you can kind of put out there , uh, the , the better it'll be, you know, and an employer that doesn't like who you are, they're going to pass on you, but it's probably going to be better for you. Right. Cause you wouldn't fit in there anyway. Uh, but people are going to look, they're going to see who you are. They're going to see, you know, a little bit of your personality and it's going to be, they're going to feel a lot more comfortable taking the time to interview you and potentially hire you. Uh , so like, that's, that's kinda like the employer perspective on, on social media. Uh, but then beyond that, like, just the , the support around the community. So like, obviously like you mentioned, staying on top of the latest trends is so much easier. I mean, it would be crazy. It'd be impossible for one person. I mean, what are you going to do ? Go through like rechange logs on your own of all this stuff? Like you can't do it all with Twitter. Like you just get, you know, if something is hot and it's, it's, you know, just came out and it's important, everybody's going to be tweeting about it, right? You don't have to search for it, it's going to be there. Uh, and that at the same time, like I know I've had , uh, issues with , uh, like mental health issues, so anxiety and depression, you know, there's been a couple times and I felt really low and I would just, you know, send a message out there, just letting people know how I feel and then the response you get back, you know, it definitely helps, you know, sometimes out of nowhere somebody will say, Hey, like you don't know this, but there's one thing you said or you did really help me. And something like that can just really pull you out of a depression or, or, you know, things like that. So the , uh, that's kinda like some kind of intangible thing that it doesn't have anything to do with you getting ahead in your career, making money or anything like that. But just, you know, having people there for you, you know, from, from anywhere. You know, I , I could be , uh, you know, anywhere in the world as long as I can get on Twitter, you know, I have that connection to, you know, real people who we share a connection through what we do. Uh, but then, you know, we also share our struggles and, and help each other out.

Speaker 2:

I think that's one of the great things too about Twitter is that you don't even have to talk about tech shit. Like me too. I suffer from depression and anxiety and like really, really bad health anxiety and I've , I've just thrown shit out there and I've had people like my DMS would be blown up about people saying, Hey, listen, it's okay. You know, things will get better. And like ways to help and things that have helped me throughout like that struggle as well. Because you know, living in Denver here , uh, I don't have a support system. You know what I mean? Like my family, my friends, like the people like I would see every single day or talk to every single day, they're all back in Detroit. It's like I can't just run to them if I'm down and out, you know what I mean? So having somebody like there that you do have that connection with, like you said, makes it a lot easier. Uh , in my opinion. So talking about that too, I'm in Twitter and being a professional person or whatever, do you find it necessary? And I see this a lot. I do it in my profile where people put tweets are my own. Do you find that necessary? Because I tweet a lot of shit all the time. Right. And that's not reflective of any company I've ever worked for. That's me being me. And that's part of my brand and it might help. I don't know what , what do you ,

Speaker 3:

what's your take ? I think it's, I wish it weren't like that, but it's probably the safe bet to put somewhere that your tweets are your own. Um , you know, I haven't , uh, like your brand and my brand are , are a little bit different. Right. And , um, they're not good or bad. Like they're just, they're different. Right? Like you have your unique brand. If I tried to do your brand, like I don't think people would buy it. Right. I'd be like, dude, like you're trying to be Christmas cards . Right . Um, right. So like, it's somewhat, I guess, depends on your brand. Like if you know you're going to be putting opinions out there and stuff that , um, someone higher up at your company may not like, then definitely put that somewhere. Like put it in your bio or something. Um, it's just, it's the safe bet. Like, you would think that people would understand how Twitter works, but they don't know . They don't. And you know, it can be an unforgiving place at times. Uh, you know, people aren't gonna assume the best, you know, you might word something just in an awkward way and people are going to take it in like the worst way possible. Not everybody, but there's going to be like a few people that are going to take it the wrong way and you know, so just kinda cover yourself and you know, throw that in there and uh, it's, you know, it's helpful. It takes a few seconds to put it in there and then, you know, could save you a lot of headaches.

Speaker 2:

Right? Yeah. A lot of people, a lot of things are taken a whole hell of a lot out of context on Twitter. So that kind of brings us to the next question, which is the reverse of the one we just talked about, the positive things. What are the not so great things that you see from the community? Because I mean, being a , from the outside, I try not to interact with the, with the negative stuff. Sometimes it shit does, it gets under my skin. But like, how do, what do you see from being on the outside that's, that's negative.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I do. You know, you see, you do see, I think sometimes people who like people who I know because I met them at conferences, so I've met them personally. I've talked with them. I know they're good people and then you know, they'll, they'll throw out a tweet in the way it's worded. It's almost like I see the tweet and I think, Oh man, that's going to be bad. So, cause I know them and I know what they meant, but I know how people are going to take it and they're going to take it in the wrong way. Uh, and there's almost like, at that point, there's nothing you can do because there's no, there's a logic to what happens, you know, it's just like, you know, somebody sees it, somebody gets upset, they get a group of likeminded people and then it's almost like a, I don't want to say like a , like a feeding frenzy. Right. You know, when it , when one shark find something, they , they all go in for it. It almost seems like that, you know, and so you will have individuals who are basically good people who, you know, just phrase something the wrong way or maybe just were frustrated and just in one moment just vented something that if they would've thought about for a few more seconds thought , Oh , you know, maybe I'm not gonna post that. And then they just get hammered. Uh, and so that's something that the bad part of Twitter and that's for me, like I think about that a lot , uh, that I'm usually like very careful about what I put on Twitter just to like double and triple check and say like, is this the best way to phrase this? Even if it's not a controversial opinion, it's just, you know, you phrase it, you know, there's so many Twitter arguments over just terminology in the right terms to use and no one seems like no one allows you to claim ignorance either. Right? So that's the big thing is like, even if you had no idea what you said, you know, let's, let's say had different connotations than what you thought. No one's going to give you a pass because of that, you know , they're not going to have any sympathy for you. They're going to say, well you should've known, you know, so like whether or not that's a good argument, I'm not going to get into that, but that's just the way people are going to handle it. It can, I in a sense, I feel like it almost limits the conversation a little bit on Twitter, but you know, the probably, I'm sure there's a flip side to it and it , it almost, it prevents, it probably prevents , um, abuse on Twitter. So like there's a give and take there, right. You want to let anybody say anything they want it , just say deal with it. Cause that's probably not going to be good, you know, but at the same time, so it kind of swings back and forth with things being like the Twitter police being too much or not enough. So, you know, I , I don't know that I have a strong opinion one way or another. Uh , I do feel kind of bad like when that does, when it happens to somebody who I know and like I know what their intention was, I feel, I feel really bad about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, me too. Well, let's talk a little bit about community as the, like the physical aspect of community goes . What types of contributions are you providing out there to the community? To the developers ?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So , um, a few things. So I, I do speak at conferences and uh, also , uh, which probably what I'm I guess most well known for is my free code camp live streams . I do that. I also have my own YouTube channel , uh, where I, I do , um, some live streams and some coding tutorial things. You know, I'm, I'm somewhat active on Twitter and Instagram I guess in, in like a more professional kind of way. Yeah, that's my big contribution. I've done like hundreds of hours of live streaming for free code camp. And , um , in particular, like I tried to do real projects and I don't rehearse anything beforehand. I mess up for real and try to fix it , uh, in front of a , in front of a live audience. And I th I think there's value in that, in that at least when, when I started a couple of years back, there weren't too many people who are doing it who were live streaming code and especially who are doing it like that where it was unrehearsed completely. But , uh , I thought it would be very good for beginners to see someone who's, who's already getting paid to be a developer. Um, what it's really like to mess up on things and to have to work your way through an improvise and like, you know, and on most of the streams, things don't go as planned. You know, they're not perfect in the streams where everything does go well. Those are the most boring streams . Yeah. Cause you want to see somebody fuck up. Right. I mean in a certain sense, like it makes you feel better about your code when you see somebody else like struggling through it. Not that you are like somehow like to see people struggle. Right. But it's just like, Oh wow, I'm not the only person that struggles like this dude does it too. I'm like, yeah. Right . Cool. Well , so how did you get involved in speaking then ? What has the journey been like for you? I get that question all the time. How'd you get involved in speaking ? Yes . So , uh, my very first , uh, conference was November. Uh, so mu is a is sweet conference. Uh, they took a little break so they haven't had it , uh, some channeling cause at 2017, I believe last year, 27 questions, they didn't have it either as the year that I spoke. And I think that was the last year that they , they had it. So I uh , through my live coding I got into that. So I gave a talk about my live coding experience , uh, at November. And uh, that's in , it was in Nashville. And uh, previous to that I had got the idea from talking to some speakers at syntax con about their experience speaking cause I , I had no clue. How do you get into this? What's it like and everything. And after talking to them, I thought, all right , this is really cool. I want to do this. So , um, yeah, so I just submitted, submitted a paper to this conference and um, which that for those who don't know, the process is not really hard. You just send in like a paragraph about what you want to talk about. Say, Hey, here's who I am, here's my social media links, here's what I want to talk about is pretty simple. Then they'll get back to you and let you know if, if you're going to speak. So that was, that was cool. That was a good conference I'm trying to make, they were in there, a couple people who spoke at that conference too that I really looked up to in the community. So it was kind of amazing for me. So like Ben alegbra do I think was one of the keynote speakers. Uh , Amy Knight was a keynote speaker. Amy's good PR. Yup . Amy's on my team. Uh, so like these people that I had seen at other conferences or had , you know, seen on Twitter and stuff, like they were speaking. So I was like , uh, it was a strange experience for me because you know, these were like the famous people right in my field that I've been there. So I've been there. I've been, sometimes I'm like, Oh shit, like so-and-so going to be here. Like Oh I can't believe I'm speaking at an event like this. It's why I like, I almost want to like save, you know they do the conference websites every year, right. Where your picture is on the same page as these other people. And I like want to save these websites just to see like, you know, Hey I was like three rows down from this person. Right. Three rows down in two over man. That's good. That's good stuff.

Speaker 2:

So would you say that speaking was sort of a catalyst for free code camp? Cause you said you'd started doing the live demo, live coding stuff during your talks and then essentially free code camp and your live stream kind of came out. So is that, is that kind of how that became part of your journey?

Speaker 3:

So I did, I did the free code camp first and then , uh , did my, they might talk. Uh, so I think the free code camp gave me a lot of confidence first, like speaking in front of a live audience. Uh, and then so that gave me the confidence to start applying to conferences. Then I did that and then they just kind of fed off each other, right. Because I'd go to a conference, I'd meet a lot of people, I'd network, tell them about my live stream and then I'd get more viewers for my stream. And the more streaming I did, it seemed like more conferences were interested in , in what I had to say. Uh, so kinda like, you know , even now, like to this point , uh, it seems like every kind of thing I do in the community helps all my other things. You know, when I do, when I do a conference, all my, my YouTube channel and everything gets more views and social media gets more followers . So it just kinda builds, I hate to use the word my network cause that sounds like, like it's too business. Like it's your policy policy is a better word. Right. Cause they're not like, they're not just like business contacts, right. Like I'm not going to try to sell them something that's your current , like they are like their friends, you know, and you know that we reach out to each other and so yeah, like you , you just build this kind of community of , of friends.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Cool. So for , for the free code , for the free code camp for free code camp, did they reach out to you? Did you reach out to them? How did you get involved with,

Speaker 3:

I'll say this, this was kind of like a, a just a loud experience for me. Uh, I had the idea, I was working at a university as a front end developer and I , I wanted to get some of the computer science students involved in the projects we were working on. And I thought it might be cool to collaborate and maybe see like you'll get an intern or something like that. I really wanted like I wanted to help them build up their portfolios and before they graduated and I thought this would be like a cool way of of doing it. So I uh, I tried like unsuccessfully to get some interest in. I thought, you know, maybe I'll just lie stream what I'm doing. I'll send a link out to the computer science club, Facebook group, see what they think. So I asked my boss about it. He said, yeah , yeah that's fine. You know, it sounds good. So I just started last dream in like an hour a day of my work. I had no clue what I was doing. So after like a few days into it, decided to put a link on the free code camp forum and I just asked for advice. As I say, I'm not the , the post is probably still up there. I said, I don't really know what I'm doing. This is what I'm trying to do, you know, if anybody has time, please check this out and let me know what you think. Bo Carnes who handles most of the YouTube stuff for free code camp and does a ton of awesome JavaScript tutorial videos. He messaged me and said, Hey, like I saw this, this is, this is really good. Do you think you'd want to do this for free code camp? And I freaked out. Right? Because like, this is free code camp, right? Like I learned JavaScript through free code camp, right? Like , um , so I was like, yeah, right. And at the time, like my channel had like three subscribers, I was like, nothing. Right. Uh, and free code camp had, this was early on, so they may be had 100,000 subscribers. Like it was, you know, they're up to like well over a million right now. Uh, so anyway, like, so I did a , uh , some live streams for them. And then Quincy who runs Rico came and founded free code camp, sent me a message and said, Hey, this is , this is awesome. You know, do you want to , uh, you know, you can do more of this. I don't remember exactly the phrasing, but basically I was like, Hey, like I can do this every day. So I did for a long time. I had lives live coated five days a week, Monday through Friday , uh, for at least an hour every day. And uh, that was cool. It was like a perfect situation. My boss was cool with it. He thought it was , um , great for our projects. We were getting contributors to our projects , um, through like everything was on get hub, those open source. And it was frankly, it was good publicity for the university, right? Like I was working on university websites, the logo was right there, right people. And this is a small university in Ohio, right. And we have people all over the world now, like seeing it. So , um , it ended up, I think being just like good all around for everybody involved. And uh, the community just like grew from there. Uh, and it, it like far exceeded anything I ever expected. Right. I just was hoping for maybe one or two computer science students. Right. And that was, and then it grew from there. I, I don't know how many computers I assume is that we actually watched it from , no, it was the developers that we found out about on Twitter that were watch your free code camp. I think your episodes are free kill camper . Sweet . I don't know how you do it. You just react from the ground up all from scratch. Yeah. It's very terrible cause you don't see the audience too , right. It's a little bit easier to , uh , to just do your thing when you're just, I mean, literally I'm looking at myself, I'm staring at some code and then I see myself in the little, you know, video for my , uh , broadcasting software. So, but it's , uh , yeah. Yeah. It's cool. It's just, it's, it's almost like, it's weird to think about how it grew and were started like , um, uh, I think a lot of it was just like coincidence that it, it just happened when it did and not necessarily like any conscious decision that I made. It just, it just kinda fell into place, you know?

Speaker 2:

Right. Yeah. That's a cool story. I really dig that. So I know that , uh, your wife Becca is , she's doing great in the community. She's also going to be a guest on the show here in 10 days I think. And I met her when I met you at rev comp . Um, so is it nice to have someone around just to like teach and throw ideas at and mentor , uh, like when need be or like bounce ideas off of or like run a talk by, cause I know like I know for me specifically, like if I had a partner that was also a developer in the space, like we could rap about code all day long and talk about, you know,

Speaker 3:

haves versus spaces. It's a very cool experience. And so I've kind of had it both ways. Like , uh , when I, for a long time I was a developer and she was an English professor. Uh, so, you know, she had no clue what I was talking about and you know, I didn't know what she was talking about. I mean she always proofread anything I had to rate, which was sweet, you know, whenever she switched and started learning how to code, then we started to have those conversations. Uh, and now, you know, she used to the point where like she is, she, she works , um , as a, she's a remote developer. Uh, she mostly works with react and so like I work with react and react native as well. So like I get home from work and you know, she's got her stuff open and , and she's asking me about like a certain thing and , and it like, in one sense like, because I've been doing it for a lot longer , um, often like kind of in the mentor role , uh, but not always. Right. So like she got really into testing and react hooks before I had a chance to get into that just because of the way the project had had happened. Like we were using react native where I work, but hooks hadn't come out yet for react native. So like I got to use hooks by like looking at her project and kind of helping her through that. Like, that's how I got an introduction to, to actually seeing hooks and action. Uh, and then the same way with a lot of, like a lot of things in testing. She has some really complex testing stuff going on with marking data and things. And , um, she was using react testing library, which I had heard about, but I didn't, you hadn't used yet. Uh, so I got a great introduction to that, like through trying to like help her through, through things. That's kinda cool. I guess it's just kind of cool to bring out the leg if you decide to mentor people. It's surprising how much you learned as a mentor. Right. Um, but then like , it's also cool, it's cool to be able to help her through things. Uh, like I think newer developers get discouraged easily and um, it's cool to be able to just say like, you know, she'll say like, well , I've been stuck on this thing for hours. Right. And , and to be able to say like, you're going to get through this, like, don't worry about it. Like, I remember, I mean I feel like I'm an old man when I say this, but like I remember a couple of , you know, five years ago I was stuck on this one thing for two weeks. Right? Like , uh, you know, in the end to kind of bring up the story, like, listen, like you , you're going to get through this, like it's going to be all right . And I think that's, that's a cool thing to be able to , uh, to, to work through , uh , with her. And , and when she gets excited about code, it's a , it's really awesome. It's in some days, like when I'm stuck at work on something and I just, I don't feel like I was that productive. Cause you know, you get working on a bug, like you do a lot of work but you don't see a result cause you're just trying things that don't work. Right. And then I'll come home and like, she'll have some issue in , like, I'll spot it immediately. Right. And so like, it's kinda cool that like, that can just turn a whole day around. They're like, Oh yeah, you know , uh, I was able to help out with this thing. And it is, it is really cool. Like it just opens up a whole new world of things for us to talk about. So yeah, it's , uh , I , I recommend, you know , uh, there, there are a lot of coding jobs out there. So if your significant other , uh , is not into coding and you are like , uh , you know, get them onto free code camp and have them do some, some stuff and , uh, there's enough jobs for everybody and their significant other. Definitely. No , I think that's really cool. That's really, really cool. And speaking of five years in the past, let's talk about the future for a just a second. We only got a couple, a few minutes left here. So what is the number one thing that you hope to see out of the community in the future or even in six months? I really would,

Speaker 4:

right ?

Speaker 3:

Kind of see this already and I like to see it continue. It seems to me like I see a lot less , uh , debates over things that don't matter as much. Like I used to be couple of years ago that you would constantly see debates about what framework is the best. So like little things that don't matter as much. It seems kind of like we've developed a little bit out of that and are starting more to recognize like, Hey, it's like, that's not the question. Uh , so I'd like to see us kind of continue in . Um, really just be, I know this is kind of a lot to ask for out of Twitter, but, but , uh, on Twitter, but then in the community in general , uh, I would like to see us like maybe assume the best out of each other. Right? So assume good intentions when things are ambiguous. Like I , I dunno , I think that's like, I don't want us to be naive. I'm not saying be naive, right. But I'm just saying like, if you could take things a certain, you know, a a good way or a bad way, just try to take it a good way, you know , uh, you know, makes until somebody really proves that they are, have bad intentions, just assume good. Right. And I mean , you know what , that's a lot to ask sometimes for people who have been through rough things. Right. Uh, so I know that's a lot to ask, but I think it would help out the community, you know, as, as a whole , um, to try to like come together, get things done and help each other. Definitely

Speaker 2:

pop question that follows that one. What do you see are things, a couple of things out there that we can do as a community to project and help build a positive community? Like you see a lot of code of conduct. I think that's great. That definitely helps promote a positive community. But what other things, maybe two or three short things that we can do to ,

Speaker 3:

yeah, I would say be positive yourself ready ? Like if you want to see positivity, like put positivity out there, right ? When people have good news, congratulate, you know, be there. Like tell them it's good job. Uh, you know, share the good news. Uh , that doesn't mean that you can be real about your struggles either. Right? Don't be quick to jump on the bandwagon when somebody may have said something and they've taken it wrong. Right? Like I'm not saying you got to stick your neck out there and like, you know, start attacking the people that are the attackers. That's not gonna solve anything anyway. Like try to deescalate instead of escalate. Right. Uh, so be like firm, but , um , kind in your response , uh , to negativity also. Like when it comes to , uh, like in-person things, I think just like be, be open, right? So like you and I, Chris, like obviously if we saw each other at a conference, right? Like we'd be talking to each other, we see each other, but like, I've been in the spot where I'm at a conference, I don't know anybody, so like, you know, don't be pushy about it, but just kind of look out for that, right. And say, like, be open to letting people in. You know, sometimes it's , uh , you know, people just need just a little encouragement , um, and let them in. And , and I guess one more, if I could add one more thing. Uh , I noticed this a lot. I get a lot of people who are not native English speakers on my livestream . And I guess just for everybody to be aware of this who are, you know, native English speakers, like the way that things might be phrased when someone's trying to, you know, say something in a language that's not their, their natural language like can be very awkward. So just be aware of that. Like the way they say something may seem very rude to you, but they may not intend that at all. You know, just kinda just be kind of open and assume that they're saying assume good intentions behind it. Cause I , I can't imagine like I only speak English, right? Like I , I can't imagine saying anything of substance in another at this point right now.

Speaker 2:

So, you know, just kinda like be impressed by their skills and, and uh, yeah, so that was kind of really specific, but I just see it a lot from the stream now . Those are great points. And to speak about being open. I always kind of default to when we were at rev con and we were standing around and Kyle Shevlin comes up and he says Pac-Man roll . And he just literally pushed us all to the side. First time I heard that was from Casa . Shout out to a cow chef .

Speaker 3:

He's big on Twitter too. But like, yeah. Um, the , if you don't know the PAC man role , um, it just, when you're standing around like in a circle, like leave a spot open for somebody to come in and join you

Speaker 2:

and keep growing that spot as the bigger the circle gets. Just always keep one spot open for somebody else to mosey on it . I always default to at every conference I'm at man, every conference. So those are all great tips points, Jesse , all great things that you've said. My last question for you, the night, what advice do you have for someone new to the web and software that truly want to get involved in the community? Twitter,

Speaker 3:

Twitter, folks ? I would say , uh, you know your strengths, right? So if, if you're a good writer, get on some blog posts, right? If you feel like maybe you could do some videos, put us in videos out there. Um, get in touch with a free code camp. Like let's say you're like super introverted. You don't want to put yourself out there but you still want to help free code camp stuff is all open source. You know, they need volunteers to help , um, contribute code or even even just check for typers and their documentation and things like that. Uh, you know, get involved in that way. In the open source community. I'm sure there's a ton of people who you don't hear from, but they are definitely valuable to the community for those types of contributions. I mean, just think about, especially Chris, I know you'll understand this, like when it comes to accessibility, like the people that are quietly working to make open source projects more accessible and you know, they're, they're making things available to so many people who would have no way , um , to access content. So, you know, figure out what it is that you would make you happy and that you can generally like contribute and then, and do it. And I would say like, I was very fearful that people were going to say I was a terrible developer once they saw me. Right ? What's this on my staff that has never happened? Maybe I'm just lucky. I , it's not that I've never been criticized for my code, but I've never had somebody flat out say like, you have no business being in this industry. And I thought that was what was going to happen. Right? That's probably not going to happen to you, right? You, I mean, you may be really unlucky and get somebody come along that says that that had a really bad day, but odds are the majority of people are going to be helpful and encouraging. Um, so don't be afraid to put yourself out there and , uh, you, you will help people. You , you never know who all you're going to help. Uh, so yeah, just

Speaker 2:

start out with whatever you're comfortable with, but definitely, you know, get out there in any way. And , and I really do recommend being on Twitter even if you only like retweet cool stuff. Right. That's still, you're still out there, right? Most, well my brother, I think that wraps up this episode an amazing episode to kick off 2020 year , the first episode of the year, which is dope. I think that's episode number nine or 10. I'd have to go back and look. But uh , yeah, we're going to kick it into high gear this year. We're going to put out some episodes. I got some amazing guests coming up. Gala bore , Diana Rodriguez, Becca waggles coming on. Lindsey wild. We're going to keep them going. Uh , is there anything that you want to plug Jesse before we dip out Twitter again? Um, where you work, what you do free code camp, where you're going to be maybe in a couple months. I should for sure. Check out free code camp. They get a lot of great

Speaker 3:

resources out there. They got a YouTube channel, a forum, a like a whole blogging site. Now I'm probably missing some stuff. They have so much radio station podcasts like , um , so much, so much content out there, all for free. If you're financially well off, please consider donating. Right? Like I don't make money off of what I do in like 95% of the people make nothing off of what , um , what free code camp does. So definitely check that out. Right now I worked for Dick's sporting goods , um, great place to work if anybody's in the Pittsburgh area , um , you know, check us out. Got a lot of cool projects going on over there, especially if you're under react, react native. I know we're always looking for those types of people and uh , yeah, like if you want somebody to follow on social media, follow my wife. She's awesome on social media. Like, I mean, yeah, you can follow me too, but

Speaker 2:

be real here. Like she, she is, has better content than I do. Right. I like her Monday goals. I always look for a Monday goals tweet from her on Monday.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, she's inspiring. She has like funny stuff that the kids do. We have like four little kids. Right? So , um, yeah. You know, check her out and follow her. I don't know what my schedule is going to be like for conferences yet. This year I was trying to cut back. I want a little overboard last year. Uh, so I gotta I want to be a little more respectful of my wife's time and be hanging out with my kids, but I hope to get out there to some conferences.

Speaker 2:

Well, so, and check out my YouTube stuff as well. You know, if you, if you get a chance to want to watch some code. Nice. Well Jesse , I appreciate you giving me the time brother. Yeah, I'm so happy to be on this show. So like I've been listening to podcasts since years ago, so, so, so cool. Like you have no idea how long I've thought about what horror movie I would tell you if I ever got on this. That's like the most important question in the whole entire podcast, right? Yeah. I knew

Speaker 3:

like, you know, you gotta you can't listen to this podcast. Not think like,

Speaker 2:

what would I say? Yeah. Shit. What if Chris asked me? Cool. Cool. Well, that wraps up this episode. I just wanted to give you once again a huge thank you for coming out 2020s of the year. We're going to be kicking ass and taking names and on that note, catch you later. Peace. Thanks for checking out tales from the script. You can catch all the episodes on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher, as well as tails and empty script.com give us a follow on Twitter too at tales . Ft script.

Speaker 1:

You want to flip [inaudible] .